In an insightful interview, Variance’s Ethan Ijumba sits down with Pheelz, the acclaimed hitmaker whose music has garnered praise from global icons such as Barack Obama, Dr. Dre, Timbaland, and DJ Khaled. Recently releasing a new single and music video, and collaborating with Usher on his latest album, "Coming Home," Pheelz discusses his artistic journey, creative process, and the emotional authenticity behind his music. He shares his perspective on blending Afrobeats, R&B, and pop, the challenges of conveying personal truths through his art, and the evolution and global impact of African music. Through it all, Pheelz emphasizes his passion for music and commitment to staying true to his roots while embracing the broader music landscape. Be sure to listen to “Go Low” on all DSPs and read the full conversation between the two below.
Ethan Ijumba: Here, I am talking to the award-winning hitmaker Pheelz. You've been co-signed by great acts, including Barack Obama, Dr. Dre, Timbaland, and DJ Khaled. You just recently released your newest single and music video. You also worked with Usher on his most recent album, Coming Home. Overall, how's everything been with you?
Pheelz: Man, everything has been amazing. Life has been a movie. The art has been great, and the fans have been great. I'm just soaking it all in and taking it one day at a time, too. But yeah, everything has been amazing.
EI: So, with that being said, when it comes down to your music, it's got a huge blend of Afrobeats, R&B, and pop, and you find a way to just seamlessly put those all together and mix it into different compositions and genres. How exactly do you go about the process when you're in the studio creating your music?
Pheelz: For me, it can come either way. I can start with the beat or the lyrics first, but all in all, the feeling comes first, almost like it's about how I feel and what I want the song to make me and the fans feel. So, I put the feelings first before I touch anything or write any line. Whenever I write my lyrics or songs, I always make sure it comes from the place of truth. I don't like writing folktales or fairy tales or writing what is not true to me. For example, when I pick a song like “Ruin,” which was literally based on a heartbreak that I had gone through. When I pick all my songs, they are my truth and my life. So, those are the things I consider when I'm making music, but ultimately, the feeling comes first. That was the first question I asked myself: What do I want to feel with this song?
EI: Do you ever feel it's sometimes hard to relay and put your feelings onto paper and make it into music when you're not going through anything? Or do you sometimes have trouble tapping into the emotional appeal of what you want your music to state?
Pheelz: I think it's a little bit of a struggle, to be honest, because I feel like that's why it took me a while to actually get behind the mic officially and be an artist because I've been a producer for over a decade now, just writing songs and making hits for a cause I see myself as one of the few true artists that still exist in this space. My music is my art, and it's very special to me cause it's how I heal; it's how I go through life. It took me a while to allow people into that world of mine. Cause before, I would just make songs for my own listening only, so it's still a little bit of a challenge for me to put my life and my emotions into music for people to judge or to, you know, like or dislike or to just have opinions over, you get me.
EI: Do you feel that making the music you make sometimes makes you feel like you're a target now like you're watched at a higher level, or do you feel like maybe you have a weight on your shoulders to succeed from a whole continent?
Pheelz: For a while, I was feeling like that because it's all new to me. This light is the brightest that I've ever seen, and it's sometimes blinding. Sometimes, you get into your head and into your mind, and you know how the mind gets now with all the chatter and all the noise that it makes up there. So, recently, I've learned to believe in my source and in myself. It's music, it's God-given, it's talent, it's what I know, it's what I breathe, it's what I live. So I choose to stay in that source and tune every other thing out. There will be people who love it, and there will be people who don't, and that’s okay; as long as I get to make it, that's fine with me. So, I don't look at the results anymore. I don't look at what people say anymore. I just live with a love for music and a passion for it. That's where I reside now, and that's where I find peace.
EI: Do you feel you don't see being an artist as a career then, because you're not focused on the numbers or anything like that? Or do you still feel that I'm at my true heart, just someone who loves music, and I make music, and I try not to let the artist label encompass meeting quotas, numbers, statistics, and such and such?
Pheelz: I just make music that I love, and I go from there. First, I see it as a career. I understand the business of it. Don't get me wrong. Like there's a whole business to this, but I don't let that; I try not to let that dictate how I see the music or how I relate to the music because the emotion towards the art, especially from the artist, is how do you feel about what you are making? Numbers are good; it's all metrics and report cards, but I don't want that to be the driving force for my art. Because then it starts becoming a product, it starts feeling like manufacturing. I choose to stay in the creative source. I choose to stay passionate about making music, regardless of what the numbers say. For me, I always tell my friends back then, even Olamide or Fireboy or all these crazy artists that I've worked with, I've always told them that if I don't make a dime off of this music, this is still what I would do till I die.
EI: Do you see a difference between the music industry in Africa compared to the United States? Because your music now touches a lot of different places globally. But when comparing the US and Africa, are there any specific key or main differences between being an artist in Nigeria and being an artist in the United States that you've seen in any way from the differences in industry?
Pheelz: I would say yes, and I would say no. There are differences in the sense that whatever is done in the rest of the world can be done in Africa as well and can be done by Africans as well. However, the only difference is structure because the structure of African music is still growing. It's growing rapidly, but it's still growing. Like in LA or the rest of the world, it will get there.
EI: What do you mean by the structure? Do you mean in terms of how the music is consumed by the audiences, or do you mean the structure of how the music is released?
Pheelz: It's everything. How it's released, it's streaming, it's consumption, it's record keeping, it's all that. That's the one difference that I see, but that is getting there. It's just going to take time, and it's just going to take everybody's collective efforts to get it where it should be. But that aside, when it comes to talent, when it comes to hustle, when it comes to the grind, when it comes to delivery on whatever level of professionalism it takes, I believe it is up to par with every other person in the rest of the world.
EI: What would you say in the sense of today's artists would you say is the Mount Rushmore of the forefront leading African music to just terms in a global landscape sense? Like if you could put like the rap Mount Rushmore we hear like it's Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Tupac, and such and such. But when it comes down to Afrobeats or African music itself, who would you say is the big four?
Pheelz: That puts me on the spot. I would like to do 5, to be honest. I'll say Burna Boy, Davido, Wizkid, Rema, and Tems.
EI: Yeah, I could agree with that. I think the only person who would maybe, maybe if we could make it six, I might say Fireboy DML.
Pheelz: Yeah I like to think there are lots of Afrobeat acts killing it right now. For example, when we think of Fireboy, we think of Victony, we think of Asake, we think of me. We talk about Ayra Starr, like it's a whole floodgate right now.
EI: Do you feel that with how everything has been just so popularized right now with Afrobeats and just African music, sometimes I don't like to call it Afrobeats because some people say it's just African music. How do you feel about the terminology? Do you feel like it's got a negative connotation? Do you feel like it's positive?
Pheelz: For me, whatever name we choose to call it is just that it's a name. The most important thing is the sound and the spirit of the sound. If we choose to call it Afrobeats, I ride with the people that die for the people. If the people decide to call it that, then that's what I'm going to call it until we decide otherwise. For me, the name is just a tag for the rest of the world to understand what it should be called or what it is called. But the most important thing is the spirit of Afrobeats and the spirit of African music.
Another thing that is important is educating people about the true identity of the sound that is Afrobeats. This whole new light that is shining on us is beautiful, it's the most beautiful thing that could ever happen right now. It's amazing, but at the same time, it's sometimes scary because a lot of misunderstanding can go around real quick. It's on us as African creatives to educate the world now on what the African sound truly and really is. So shout out to everybody trying to wave their own flag, shout out to Burna doing Afro Fusion, shout out to CKay doing Afro emo, everybody's waving their own flag, which is nice. I'm not kicking against that, but we need to always remember there's a collective consciousness and people behind this. It's not just a single entity. When you're out there in front of the world, you are carrying a whole continent on your head. Represent the people, be a people person, and wave the people flag, whatever flag we choose to call it, whether it's Afrobeats whether African music, as long as the people decide to call it that, that's the flag I'm gonna wave and that's what I would advise everybody else to do.
EI: Do you find competition between some of your collaborators, or is it more of an uplifting?
Pheelz: I think it's a little bit of both. Humans are humans, you get me, regardless. People are amazing people, some people are shit, and that's just how the world is. It's unity; it's mostly good energy and good vibrations. Cause we understand that, you know, you know, when it's time to do the work, we have to put the equals aside. This is not just for us, this is for the future, this is for the next generation to come, this is for all of Africa, this is not just for fields; this is for everybody. I keep saying it anywhere I go around the world, now is the time for the craziest collaborations. The craziest collaborations on tracks, the craziest collaborations on tour, the craziest collaborations everywhere, man. Cause we have to save this light for Africa and for the next generation. So yes, it's mostly unity, but sometimes, you know, humans can be humans, too.
EI: I agree with you on that. Collaborations are definitely the path to take, and we've seen a little bit of it lately. We've seen Justin Bieber work with WizKid, and we've seen Pop Smoke and Burna Boy collaborations. Afrobeats is definitely getting that mainstream light. We just need a posse cut of four to five of the biggest African artists right now to get together.
Pheelz: Like a “We Are The World”
EI: Exactly, I think that would definitely put everything over from what it should be, and it shows that we're here to stay, too.
Pheelz: Exactly, I might just go Quincy Jones on everybody and try to pull that off. But, if you can do that with the right message as well, the right lyric, and the right message, we can actually shake the world if we can, leave our egos at the door, and just make that happen.
EI: So, aside from the future of Africa as a continent and what it's looking like from the music scene and such, you also have your upcoming EP, Pheelz Good II. What exactly are specific themes and emotions that you're exploring on this EP compared to the last one?
Pheelz: This new EP is an education to Afrobeats. Remember what I said about how now we need to educate people on the true identity of the sounds, that's what I'm trying to do with this EP. So, it doesn't really sound like the Afrobeats the world is familiar with. It's teaching the world that there are numerous other sides to Afrobeats and it's me also exploring those sides and putting my own twist on them. For example, there's a song called "Maajo" on there that is me paying homage to Fuji music, specifically Fuji music from Western Nigeria, and just putting my own futuristic twist to that as well. There's also a song called "Kamikaze" that's very slow and beautiful, but you would feel it in your guts. It's a song that will make you just feel something, you get me? So it's just me exploring other sides of Afrobeats and showing that to the world as well that it is more than one sound and style. I feel like being a producer I almost see it as a duty because I have the skillset enough to be able to teach and educate the world on the sound itself. I think I'm very different from every other artist because I'm a producer as well, and I understand the sonics in the true sense of their identity.
EI: Do you feel that other artists go the true traditional roots Afrobeats sound or African music sound, like you said, with your song "Maajo," do you feel like there are other artists that aren't doing that? Or would you say that there are still some doing that that are also in the mainstream limelight?
Pheelz: A lot of us do that without even knowing that we are doing that. If you pick Burna Boy, for example, Burna Boy does that a lot. He might not realize that he's doing that consciously, but there is a certain level of spirit and music that has been engraved in us from every single African child. For me, I choose to consciously do it because of my musical background, my skill set, or just me being a producer. But every single African creative has the African spirit, I'm a product of the music that I would hear my dad listening to or his dad listening to when you look at it this way it's like generational contribution so a lot of us do it without even knowing but me I'm just consciously doing it for this project, I'm mixing pop, R&B, and mixing all these things together with it as well. But at the root of it, the foundation is African music.
EI: So, from your early days in Lagos, you're now being recognized globally, and you've seen the growth of African music, from a producer standpoint and from an artist standpoint. For your own specific experience, what has been the favorite part that you've experienced?
Pheelz: Personally or the genre as a whole?
EI: How about we start personally and we'll go as a whole?
Pheelz: Personally, some of the craziest moments, bro, life has been a movie, man. Meeting my idols and my icons, like, you know, the Timberlands, the Dr. Dre's, the Usher's, you know, the Pharrell Williams, and, you know, just having a conversation with these guys and just learning and at the same time teaching them as well, like about my sound and about my craft. That's one of the craziest heights for me, sitting across the room from Timbaland and hearing him call me the future of Afrobeats and Afrobeats 2.0 and just hearing people that I've looked up to all my life say that about me, or sitting with Dr. Dre for three days straight in the studio and just making music and writing and recording and you know Snoop Dogg walks in just casually it feels like a movie like that. Those are some of the craziest moments. Performing “Finesse” at the O2 stage with Davido two days after I had just released the song and 20,000 people sang back at me word for word, performing in places like Martinique where they don't really speak English like that, but when “Finesse” comes on it's like everybody's Nigerian. Performing in America doing my first headline show after I just finished the London show recently. All these things are things that I'm really grateful for. It just humbles me to be able to experience all this, and I’m very grateful and thankful for where the music has gotten to, as well as very optimistic about the future. I know this is just the beginning for both the genre and Pheelz as well…Now I'm witnessing it as an artist and a producer, I've been in this industry for over 12-13 years and I've seen how it grew from something small and something that's just for the country and the continent to now something that is for the whole world. It's just, it's just beautiful to see and it also does something to my own mind that like no dream is too big.
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Editor's note: Pheelz Good II is out this Friday (June 28).